2 Galaxies around M57

[vasilas432]

On Saturday 6th of August among other objects I tried 2 galaxies arround M57. Near the Ring and among other star formations there is a triangle formation and very close to one of its edges there is a very faint galaxy probably called IC 1296. As long as I spotted it using averted vision, it was there 100% of the time steady. It looks to have very low surface brightness.

Looking the image of the DSS and going left there is an open circle line of 4 stars and a very faint 5th one. Next to it there is a galaxy, an extremely faint one. I got the fifth star with averted vision and firstly I thought it was the Galaxy, but no, it was the star alone. I tried at 450x to see the galaxy but nothing.

Have you ever tried those galaxies?

Clear skies
Vassilios
24.4" f/3.2
2222

[wvreeven]

I have seen IC 1296 several times with my 20". It never was easy, even from SQM 21.4 or darker skies. The other galaxy I didn't know of so I never tried it.


Clear skies, Wouter

[Steve Gottlieb]

I wasn't aware of the fainter galaxy either, but it's listed in NED with primary designation CGMW 5-08786 (https://ned.ipac.caltech.edu/cgi-bin/objsearch?search_type=Obj_id&objid=3226116&objname=1&img_stamp=YES&hconst=73.0&omegam=0.27&omegav=0.73&corr_z=1) and in HyperLeda as LEDA 2024204 (http://leda.univ-lyon1.fr/ledacat.cgi?LEDA2024204&ob=ra). The LEDA magnitude is 17.53B +/- 0.50. For comparison the LEDA magnitude for IC 1296 is 15.39B +/- 0.28.

[vasilas432]

Thanks for the info
I wasn't aware of LEDA 2024204 when observing arround M57. Actually I was going for IC 1296 but when I was looking arround something distracted my averted vision. It was probably the 5th star but I was sure then that it may be a galaxy. Found it on DSS and yes it was a galaxy close to the star. I may have see it or not. I have to try again. Someone with a bigger scope may tell as how faint it actually looks.

[Jimi Lowrey]

Steve and I have seen the spiral arms in IC 1296 in my scope in the past. I too was not aware of the LEDA galaxy, Mega Star list it as MAC 1853+3307 and gives it a mag of 17.5. I will give it a go if the monsoon here ever clears.

[vasilas432]

Steve and I have seen the spiral arms in IC 1296 in my scope in the past. I too was not aware of the LEDA galaxy, Mega Star list it as MAC 1853+3307 and gives it a mag of 17.5. I will give it a go if the monsoon here ever clears.
Great, it is very interesting to know what is going on with this LEDA galaxy! We are looking forward to your report.

[Norman]

Hello Vassilios,

IC 1296 is already visible with 12" under superb skies (NELM 7m0+, La Palma). But very, very tough. Very good second observer confirmed sighting.

CS
Norman

[RolandosCY]

I have seen IC 1296 several times with my 20". It never was easy, even from SQM 21.4 or darker skies. The other galaxy I didn't know of so I never tried it.


Clear skies, Wouter

Hi Vassileios,

Like Wooter I have seen many times IC 1296 but it's never exactly easy in my 18". Once you know it's there you can see it as a small low surface brightness smudge. Like everybody else herre I had never heard of (or noticed) the other galaxy you mentioned, but judging from the attached photo it's gonna be a hard one!

[vasilas432]

Hi Vassileios,

Like Wooter I have seen many times IC 1296 but it's never exactly easy in my 18". Once you know it's there you can see it as a small low surface brightness smudge. Like everybody else herre I had never heard of (or noticed) the other galaxy you mentioned, but judging from the attached photo it's gonna be a hard one!
Hi Rolandos

The smal Galaxy is 17.5 mag. On Saturday I will try again from an even darker site sqm reading 21,7.
I will report back.
We are waiting Jimi's report too!

Clear Skies
Vassilios
EDIT: sqm reading in the new location is more than 21,8

[Sue French]

I can see at least the core of IC 1296 in my 14.5-inch under good conditions, but its a tough catch.

[vasilas432]

I went for observation at the new dark site on previous Saturday with a couple of friends. Unfortunately different sqm devices have a different sqm readings. The one we got with us this time only measured 21,64 at about 02:30 am instead of 21,83 when we went to measure the site at 11:30 pm. No miracles happened and the 17.5 mag galaxy remained invisible.

[vasilas432]

Steve and I have seen the spiral arms in IC 1296 in my scope in the past. I too was not aware of the LEDA galaxy, Mega Star list it as MAC 1853+3307 and gives it a mag of 17.5. I will give it a go if the monsoon here ever clears.
Hi Jimi,
Did you find the opportunity for the MAC 1853+3307? My last attempt failed too due to bad seeing.
Thanks

Clear Skies
Vassilios

[Steve Gottlieb]

Hi Jimi,
Did you find the opportunity for the MAC 1853+3307? My last attempt failed too due to bad seeing.
Thanks

Clear Skies
Vassilios

Last week Jimi observed with me and other DeepSkyForum members at a dark, high elevation site in eastern California, but we didn't look for MAC 1853+3307 through my 24".

[vasilas432]

Last week Jimi observed with me and other DeepSkyForum members at a dark, high elevation site in eastern California, but we didn't look for MAC 1853+3307 through my 24".
Great,
any highlights?
Our best part was Abell 426 and galaxies arround NGC 7431. Abell 426 is a straight line made by faint galaxies! Great views but I had a feeling it could be better. Our new site in Rodopos in Crete was maybe 300 m above sea level and I could see less than the site at 1.400m
Thanks

Clear Skies
Vassilios

[Steve Gottlieb]

Great,
any highlights?
Our best part was Abell 426 and galaxies arround NGC 7431. Abell 426 is a straight line made by faint galaxies! Great views but I had a feeling it could be better. Our new site in Rodopos in Crete was maybe 300 m above sea level and I could see less than the site at 1.400m
Thanks

Clear Skies
Vassilios

I'm away from home (and my observing notes) for the next week, but one highlight for me was III Zw 22, also known as Shakhbazian 38. This is a very compact chain of 4 mag 17-17.5 galaxies within ~30". Uwe Glahn has an excellent sketch through his 27" at high power here (http://www.deepsky-visuell.de/Zeichnungen/SHK38.htm). The combined glow of the four galaxies in the chain were immediately noticed at 200x. Upping the magnification to 375x, the combined glow stretched ~1.0'x0.2', but the individual galaxies weren't resolved at this power.

I couldn't find a redshift on the group, but based on the size, I wouldn't be surprised if they in the 1 billion l.y. range.

2241

[RolandosCY]

Hi Vassileos, your site at Rodopos is not affected by Chania and the relevant coastal strip with its light pollution?

[vasilas432]

I went on Monday with 2 friends in Rodopos to measure using the sqm device and and it showed from 21.75 to 21.83 at 11:45pm. So despite the low height above sea level we decided to go in Rodopos on Saturday for observation. On Saturday I went there with other people and different sqm device. That second machine measured 21.45 only early little before midnight with the higher to be 21.64 at 03:00 am. Despite different measurements seeing was worse and it wasn't as dark as it was on Skinakas observatory a month ago.

To answer your question, yes it is affected by light pollution of Chania city because at 03:00 am when we had the 21.64 a big part of the city had the lights turned off. I found Rodopos using this map as a grey zone:
http://djlorenz.github.io/astronomy/lp2006/overlay/dark.html
According to same map Skinakas which is a darker place and 1.480 m high is a blue zone.

[RolandosCY]

To answer your question, yes it is affected by light pollution of Chania city because at 03:00 am when we had the 21.64 a big part of the city had the lights turned off. I found Rodopos using this map as a grey zone:
http://djlorenz.github.io/astronomy/lp2006/overlay/dark.html
According to same map Skinakas which is a darker place and 1.480 m high is a blue zone.
I think the map is generally created using approximate contour lines and not real data. Checking on Cyprus, where I know personally the sites, it is generally way off in regards to the "color zones". My educated guess is that it extrapolates the contours by using visible light night photos, not taking into account the terrain etc. If I believe this map, our most used dark site is ...yellow at best, yet readings of 21.5 are usual, and my 21.6 to 21.7 site is barely green. I live more or less on the edge of an orange zone, yet my skies at home are 21.1 (which for many Europeans and Americans would be a three or more hours drive!). I would not depend so much on this map, I would go the darkest site available at the highest altitude (if given a choice!). I know it can be a hussle, but maybe you guys should decide in a few candidate places and go and check them AT NIGHT without a telescope. I once had found what I thought was an excellent location, explored it during daytime, but when I went at night I realized it was useless because behind a hill to the south was a huge well lit quarry!!!

[Don Pensack]

IC1296 is fairly regularly visible to my 12.5" at a high altitude (2550) dark site (21.48 last visit).
But what is seen is the core and bar. The spiral arms are never ever visible. At least not in this aperture.
For me, best seen at 304x.
Here is a picture: http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/0911/ringdeep_CAHA.jpg

The fainter galaxy is certainly beyond my modest aperture.

[vasilas432]

IC1296 is fairly regularly visible to my 12.5" at a high altitude (2550) dark site (21.48 last visit).
But what is seen is the core and bar. The spiral arms are never ever visible. At least not in this aperture.
For me, best seen at 304x.
Here is a picture: http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/0911/ringdeep_CAHA.jpg


The fainter galaxy is certainly beyond my modest aperture.
Hi Don,
fantastic! In your photo there is another galaxy between IC1296 and M57

[kisspeter]

I can contribute a 16" drawing from 2012.
16", f/4.4, 294x, Ágasvár, Hungary
2248

IC 1296 was on the very edge of visibility (even the central star of M 57 was difficult). I remember I had seen the galaxy a little better a few years before. But it was still very difficult with 16".

[Jimi Lowrey]

I observed MAC 1853+3307 tonight under not very good conditions. It was picked up at 375X with my finder eyepiece at the end of a chain of stars it was visible as a soft glow at this power approximately 75% of the time. I bumped up the power to 697X and the galaxy I could hold all the time with AV. On a good night I think it would be visible in 18" to 20" class of scope or even a 16"?

[vasilas432]

Great report! Thanks.
I will definitely try again in better conditions with my 24.4"

[vasilas432]

I observed MAC 1853+3307 tonight under not very good conditions. It was picked up at 375X with my finder eyepiece at the end of a chain of stars it was visible as a soft glow at this power approximately 75% of the time. I bumped up the power to 697X and the galaxy I could hold all the time with AV. On a good night I think it would be visible in 18" to 20" class of scope or even a 16"?
I brought the image on my mind and thought about it better. Could you estimate the magnitude of the last star of the chain? The one next to the galaxy. I was seeing something with AV, was it the star or the Galaxy? That caught my attention from the beginning and made me to look at the map if it was a Galaxy. If the this star is high magnitude I was probably seeing with AV the star with the 24"

[acheter]

My last attempt failed too due to bad seeing.

[vasilas432]

Those galaxies require excellent seeing